Unusual tire wear - Please help.

[ultraman]

Traurig, spreche ich nicht die deutsche Sprache sehr gut.

If possible, would you be so kind to repsond in English. I have an 02 Sprinter with almost 16000 Km. I love the van, get great fuel economy, and have made a simple camping conversion. I'm hoping that someone in Germany has seen my problem and could offer advice.

I have a strange wear pattern on both front tires. No feathering, no cupping. A quite steep angle wear on all four edges. About 25 mm in length. I worked as a mechanic and know this is a strange wear pattern. Sorry for the long post, even though, I’ve shortened the story.

Since the van is under warranty, I took it to two dealers. One said, “everything is fine and in spec.” They overinflated the tires and rotated the tires. I returned the tires to the front so I would not wear out two sets of tires.

The second dealer said the van had a 3/16 (about 5 mm) toe in and reset the toe to specs. The mechanic said the 'toe in' was a function of the ride height. What? Cargo vans leave loaded in the morning and comes back empty at night.

I won’t have any hair left with this type of poor service.
The bottom line – I don’t think the problem is fixed. And which dealer do I believe?
What is the next step? Any thoughts?
Thanks, cheers, and Happy Holidays everyone,
Jim

[Hans]

Hallo in die Runde,

nicht nur das Deutsch sondern leider auch das Englisch des Hilfesuchenden ist etwas schmal! Habe den Text kurz durch ein dürftiges Übersetzungsprogramm gejagt, vielleicht kann jemand helfen:
Wenn möglich, würden Sie zum repsond auf englisch so freundlich sein. Ich habe 02 Sprinter mit fast 16000 Kilometern. Ich liebe den Packwagen, erhalte große Brennstoffersparnis und habe eine einfache kampierende Umwandlung gebildet. Ich hoffe, daß jemand in Deutschland mein Problem gesehen und Rat hat anbieten könnte. Ich habe ein merkwürdiges Abnutzung Muster auf beiden vorderen Gummireifen. Kein Gefieder, kein Höhlen. Eine ziemlich steile Winkelabnutzung auf allen vier Rändern. Ungefähr 25 Millimeter in der Länge. Ich arbeitete als Mechaniker und weiß, daß dieses ein merkwürdiges Abnutzung Muster ist. Traurig für den langen Pfosten, obwohl, I?ve die Geschichte verkürzte. Da der Packwagen unter Garantie ist, nahm ich sie zwei Händlern. Man sagte, ist das?everything fein und in speziellem? Sie blähten die Gummireifen über auf und drehten die Gummireifen. Ich brachte die Gummireifen zur Frontseite zurück, also würde ich nicht aus zwei Sätzen Gummireifen tragen. Der zweite Händler sagte, daß der Packwagen eine 3/16 (ungefähr 5 Millimeter) Zehe innen hatte und die Zehe zu Spezifikt. zurückstellte. Der Mechaniker sagte, daß die ' Zehe in ' eine Funktion der Fahrhöhe war. Was? Ladungpackwagen verlassen geladen morgens und kommen leer nachts zurück. Won?t I haben jedes mögliches Haar nach links mit dieser Art des schlechten Services. Das Endergebnis? Don?t I denken, daß das Problem örtlich festgelegt ist. Und die Händler ich, glauben? Was ist der folgende Schritt? Irgendwelche Gedanken? Dank, Beifall und frohe Feiertage jeder, Jim

Grüsse

[Axel]

das ist aber nicht das problem von ultraman's englisch, sondern vom übersetzunsprogramm.

@ultraman: could you post some photos of your tires?

[Gelöschter User]

Grusse, Thanks for the translation.
I’ll take pictures in the next few days. Axel, how do I post pictures to this web site?
Thanks very much.
Jim

[Gelöschter User]

Hello Ultraman,
please excuse that we are not very used to the english expressions for axle-geometry and tyre-wear.
As I understand the toe-in is the sideward-angle of the wheel. Your mechanic is right in so far that this angle is a function of the ride hight. It can not be adjusted at all which already made me thinking of redesigning the axle-frame to a adjustable one. Is it possible that you are regularly towing a heavy trailer with more than 150kg load on the towing ball? To me your problem seems to be caused by a regularly changing heavy load in the very back of your van, lifting of the front axle to an unusual height. Riding corners fast could have the same effect. Try to get more weight onto the front axle and try to load a trailer further back onto its axles. Am I correct that you have the 140" or 158" wheelbase an not the 118"?

Hoping to be helpful
Thomas

(nochmal kurz auf Deutsch:
"toe in" also Zehen nach innen interpretiere ich als "O-beinige Vorderachse", also negativen Sturz, der beim Sprinter abhängig von der Einfederhöhe ist. In England, USA und anderen Ländern werden Anhänger oft für deutlich mehr Stützlast konzipiert als bei uns, so dass die Vorderachse vom Zugfahrzeug entsprechend angehoben wird. Dies gibt beim Sprinter negativen Sturz. Wenn mann dann noch zügig in die Kurven fährt, raspelt es die Reifenaussenkannten zügig weg. Soweit meine Theorie)

[Gelöschter User]

Hello Thomas,
Thanks so much for the reply. Sorry, I do not know the correct German words for the tire alignment. I will try to explain toe - in and toe -out.
With van sitting level, you measure the distance between the tires. X is distance between tires when measured at the front edge of the front tires. Y is distance between tires when measured at the rear of the front tires.
If X-Y is greater than 0, the front end is "toed out".
If X-Y is less than 0, the front end is "toed in".

The van is 140" and I built a simple camping unit that weighs about 350 to 400 kg. I don't tow a trailer. I have a digital camera and hope to take some pictures when the weather is better. I live near the mountains in Colorado.
Thanks,
Jim

[Gelöschter User]

Hello Ultraman,
I just looked up the values for the front axle:
unfortunately the value in question is given as an angle, not in millimetres distance.
it should be 0°+/- 0,5° which means +/- 5,8mm with a tyre diameter of 670mm. So the 5mm you had were not out of tolerance but close to the limit.
I think it should not change to much with the ride height. At least the 0° should be adjustet at the average ride height.
But to find out if you got rid of the problem in this way, it seems you have to take the risk of changing front an rear tyres and watch.

Thomas

[Gelöschter User]

Thank you to those who answered.
I took several digital pictures, but because of the angle of the camera, the unusual tire wear is difficult to observe.
I did find a California business that has a fleet of Sprinters with this same strange wear pattern that appeared between 20000 and 30000 km. The German made Goodyear Cargo G tires were defective and replaced under warranty.
Has anyone had tires replaced under warranty?
Thank you very much,
Jim in Colorado

[Gelöschter User]

Hello Ultraman,
as far as I remember we had no such discussion about defective tires here, and if there was such a problem, we would have heard about it. Probably the tires for the US market, although german made, are different from the ones sold here. Even OEM-tires are different from the same aftermarket-type. If the US ways of handling warranty requests by daimlerchrysler are the same as in germany you should see your local dealer, rip of his head, put it in an envelope together with the request and the adress of your best lawyer an send it to your daimlerchrysler central office.

Thomas

[Gelöschter User]

Thomas,
Thanks for reply.
I have contacted the man in USA who had tire warranty problems with his fleet of Sprinters. Hopefully, he will have helpful information.
I now have 20,000 km on van and the rear tires are showing the same wear pattern.
Jim in Colorado.